Even Liverpool and Spurs fans can’t laugh at Wenger

Even Liverpool and Spurs fans can’t laugh at Wenger

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Embarrassing
I am not quite sure what is more embarrassing; Last night’s score line or the reaction from the fans. The majority seem to think it was the fault of the referee that allowed Arsenal to concede 5 goals at home when down to ten men. That makes it completely acceptable? Please note, the red card was the right decision (I was just unaware that you could change your mind as a referee).

Plus, saying the boys put up a fight and put in the best 45 minutes of the season so far. Really? Are you being serious? Have you been locked in a cave for the past 7 years? It was peak Arsenal. Get thrashed in the first leg. Go into the second with barely any chance of qualifying. Put up a fight. Make everyone think you might just make it, yet fall short just at the end. By the book Arsenal in the Champions League. The only difference this season is that the ref stopped that 40 minutes early and they allowed themselves to get obliterated. Not beaten. Obliterated.

But that’s OK because it’s the refs fault and they gave up quite a fight and performance in the first half.

Morons.
Malcolm, AFC

Be careful what you wish for…
I honestly thought today there could be no possible defence of Wenger however there are still a fair few out there still beating the “be careful what you wish for” drum.

I would like to now state reasons why Wenger should leave Arsenal and I would be very interested in hearing any counter arguments to the following points.

Lack of progress – getting knocked out of the champions league at the same stage for 7 years running. Not challenging for the league since 2008. No hints of improvement whether we spend £10million or £90million. On that note I don’t actually care about spending money as long as the players are of top quality. And on that note….

Poor recruitment of players and persistence with such players- Replacing Fabregas with Arteta and replacing Nasri with Gervinho is clearly going to make you only go one way. Now I know money was an issue back then however where is the scouting network finding top quality young players? It’s non existent. Persisting with players who are below the required level such as Ramsey, Gibbs, Walcott, Cech shows a lack of ambition.

Selling your best players: Van Persie was absolute class and instead of having quality around him we let him become frustrated. He clearly wanted to win unlike his manager. The same will be happening with Sanchez. And do you remember the quote “you cannot tell people you are a big club if you sell your best players”. Two weeks later Cesc and Nasri were gone.

Lack of preparation for the season- I will never ever forget the 8-2 at Old Trafford and the cause for that defeat was lack of preparation. Clearly true as immediately after we went out and bought Mertesacker, Arteta, Santos, and the superstar striker Chu Yung Park. Same again this season at centre back when we had to field Holding and Chambers against Liverpool and lost a possible 3 points. Going into seasons woefully unprepared.

Lack of big game mentality – just look at the results against big teams. It is absolutely shocking so enough said on that.

I guess we should all just forget the above because of what he’s done for the club shall we? Well Arsenal won things before Wenger and we will win things after Wenger. All I know is that we will not win anything from now on with Wenger.
Frankie AFC

Laughter is the best medicine
Just a quick reminder that Alexis Sanchez is a human being, subject to emotions and reactions like the rest of us. The fact that he earns more money than most due to the value (on and off the pitch) that he has created through years and years of hard work and continually pushing himself to be the at his best. Got that? Good.

Now, let’s do some scenarios. Ever laughed at an inopportune serious or just plain inappropriate moment? Funerals, where something breaks the clawing tension for a few moments and everyone gets a chance to breath and giggle before the gloom descends again. I know I have. I reckon most people have. Have you ever been watching a disaster unfold in front of you, often a disaster you predicted and begged people to change their actions to avoid disaster. Like telling someone to carry the expensive, heavy objects one at a time, because they are both expensive and heavy, and could be dropped. Thick-headed person bullishly picks up seven. When the first falls and breaks you feel anger, followed by despair on the second. By the time the fifth is dropped, sure all you can do is laugh.

If anything like the above examples has ever happened to you, congratulations you are a human being. Regardless of your job and earnings, your reaction was well within the bounds of acceptability. So can everyone calm the f*** down about Sanchez’s reaction on the bench. It was the epitome of the expression ‘Sure if I didn’t laugh, I would have cried’.
Kev (thanks)

Maybe it’s because I’m not a fan of a Premier League team, but I genuinely do not understand the outrage, whether it’s in the papers or letters like the one from Matt, Arsenal fan in the Mailbox this morning, aimed at players who have the effrontery to laugh while they’re sitting on the bench when their team is losing.

I would have thought every football fan had had the moment, when your team’s getting beaten so badly that the only thing left is black humour. Chanting ‘we’ve had a shot at goal’ when you’ve been horrible up front, or ‘sign him up’ when the ball boy traps the ball, or sarcastic jokes with the people around you in the crowd. Admit it, we’ve all been there.

Even when you’re playing, it’s natural to take the urine out of a team mate who’s had or is having a stinker, so why do people think players should sit in funereal silence, with faces like undertakers? Why can’t even Arsenal players exchange a joke about the size of the opposing striker’s behind or the referee’s odd way of running, without some berk getting on their high horse and calling them out?

Football is often accused of taking itself far too seriously, and this is a perfect example. Lighten up, for God’s sake.

Rant over, thanks for listening.

Paul Quinton,
Wolves

Changing managers
Why are we so frightened of changing managers?

It’s accepted that players come and go like the tide washing up the sand. Depositing mostly driftwood and carrying out to sea all the old discarded plastic bottles no-one needs anymore.

So why not managers as well? It appears a tsunami sized wave is needed to pull Wenger out to sea, but why are we so scared it might happen?

Look at Chelsea, I’ve lost count of the managerial changes there but where are they at the moment, 10 points clear at the top,and in the last 10 years a handful of League winners medals and recent memories of holding the Champions League trophy aloft!

Stability I hear you cry, but isn’t that responsibility of the owners and the board? Perhaps they should trade managers as the manager, in turn, trades players.

Just a thought!
Andy ( Yes another sore and hurting Gooner)

He’s even annoying Liverpool fans
Just saw the result from the Arsenal game and I’m not quite sure where to start. Arsene Wenger, what the hell is his problem? I’m not even an Arsenal fan but f**k., Wenger’s getting me mad. Funny thing is I’m angry with him in a way you’d be angry at a someone you care about who constantly keeps failing as I actually want Wenger to do well as he does seem like a generally nice guy. So Wengers recents failures is down to either him been to stubborn or he lost it as a manger, which I’d strongly doubt. He is someone that has won multiple titles so should have the blueprint of a title winning team.

Even I can tell you, you’d need a very angry person to play in midfield ( Keane, Viera, Kante) , a solid defense, quick/tricky widemen and one Harry Kane. It’s not rocket science is it guys? So why do managers who have won titles struggle to replicate their original template? Surely buying like for like can’t be that difficult?! I accept managing people is a lot trickier and players may not adapt but then what do you scout players for? Mourinho has a model and seems to try replicate the original over and over and fair play to him but what’s it with Wenger? Has he simply forgotten?
Guo LFC

…and Tottenham fans feel sorry for him
I wanted to just pen a little mail on my thoughts about Arsenal and Wenger. I’m a Spurs fan so this should be funny to me (and a relief to take the focus from Gent), and as much as I did chuckle during the game I really feel sorry for Wenger and the Arsenal fans, it’s a downward spiral that seems to only have one conclusion.

I like Wenger, Not in post-match rant mode but as a smiling gent, I would like to have a chat and a glass of cab with him, whilst he regales his most funny anecdotes, like the time Adams wanted butter on his bread, oh what japes. I find him interesting, he seems quite open and friendly and most importantly interesting in a football sense. I do however worry that Arsenal are a real sleeping giant and aren’t a million miles away from becoming a real giant.

They have it all in place, a great stadium, large global fan base, a brand and a history, they also have wealth along with real growth potential, I really think they are poised to grab the opportunity and could really start to rival some of the others, they should have already but still. But they need a manager who will fight the board, who will constantly be asking for more, to not be happy with what they have but look to improve, even marginally. To challenge the players and be quite content if the club posts a loss financially for a few years, it’s not his job, it’s the boards to manage the books.

I’m happy to be wrong, but I can’t remember a high profile signing made by them that wasn’t in the main due to their clubs wanting to get rid, Cech was surplus to requirements and the transfer seemed more as one of convenience for the player, Ozil wasn’t wanted at Real, Sanchez not needed at Barca etc etc. They should set their sights higher and not be afraid to offload if an alternative with an extra percent is available. Don’t necessarily get rid of the current first teamers, but buy better and challenge them to improve, Get Bolaissie and see what Walcott thinks, get Isco and look to Ozil.

It may not always work, but it’s ambition and in the main it will pay off in the end. Wenger is a project manager, he likes the long term, likes building and managing the books, he needs a new project whereas Arsenal need a here and now, they should be trying to hire Klopp or Guardiola or Mancini, or managers with a proven track record, instead (and I hope for the rest of us) they will try and find a mini Wenger to continue the legacy.

I know plenty of Arsenal fans and they are just fed up, never really annoyed or elated, just in a state of not really caring, seems really sad.
Steve, THFC

 

Arsenal are the posh kids
A mate of mine, who’s dad was a painter and decorator, has a huge chip on his shoulder about the posh kids getting to pick what they do as a career while everybody else has to just get a job to support themselves. His theory is that they aren’t any smarter or deserving of their careers, or even that their posh parents pull strings for them through some kind of old boys network, but rather that their families have enough money to allow them to fail.

Had enough of working for a PR agency and thinking of becoming and apprentice carpenter? Of course you can darling, just move home and we’ll support you. Your dotcom startup has failed and you fancy going back to uni to become an architect, don’t worry sweetheart, it’s not your fault that it all went wrong, we’ll pay your tuition fees. Can’t find any of the top law firms that will offer you a training contract, that’s fine, we’ll give you an allowance so that you can intern for free and they’ll see just how smart you are. The kids are never held to account, or made to feel the consequences of their bad career choices, they always get told that they should do what they want if it makes them happy, and are supported no matter how many times they get things wrong.

You can probably see where I’m going with this. Wenger is the over indulging parent who has created a culture where the players are never wrong. He tells us that he has a footballing belief and as long as the players stick to that then they are in the right, even if they lose. Not that they don’t like winning, it’s nice and everything and they always take a picture to share with their chums, but it doesn’t really matter if they lose, because it’s not their fault, it’s those nasty rough boys who don’t have the same principles.

And when one of the kids has a hissy fit because none of the others seem to care in the slightest about actually winning games, he is the one that gets punished. And until now the fans have bought this line of bullsh#t, that it doesn’t matter if they don’t win because those nasty rough boys don’t play the pretty, principled football and spend lots of money so their wins don’t count and Arsenal are still the bestist.

I don’t support Arsenal. I hope Wenger stays for many, many years to come, and his precious little snowflakes remain the entitled, spoilt children that they currently are.
Monkey Steve

Football rivalries
The timing of Arsenal’s “crisis” coinciding with Chelsea’s turn in the F365 Premier League Hall of Shame couldn’t be better, as it reminds me of something i’ve been wondering about.

As a Spurs fan, i’m quietly enjoying Arsenal’s troubles, particularly the hysterical reaction and outright civil war taking place among the fans. However, I can’t shake the nagging feeling that i’d be enjoying it much more if it were happening to Chelsea, mainly for the reasons laid out in the Hall of Shame feature (racism, Lovejoy etc).

I’m from North London so I know a lot of Spurs and Arsenal fans. Despite the age-old hatred and the twice-a-season competition for pub bragging rights, something has changed. Over the past few years, most fans of both times now admit that they dislike Chelsea far more than their supposed main rivals.

This could be because once you look beyond historical rivalry, there’s much to be admired about both Spurs and Arsenal…the commitment to good football, success (limited in our case) achieved by hard graft rather than an overnight cash injection, magical players (Ginola, Bale, Glenn Helder) etc.

Assuming it’s true that your average Spurs/Arsenal fan now hates Chelsea more than anyone else, I wonder if this situation is replicated elsewhere? One obvious example might be Liverpool fans, who probably have more reasons to dislike Manchester United than they do a local rival that hasn’t won anything for years.

Are there any less obvious examples? Do Newcastle fans hate Plymouth Argyle for some reason I don’t understand? Do Cardiff City fans spit on the ground every time Norwich City are mentioned?

We must be told.
Rob Davies, THFC (One season wonder, he’s just a one season wonder…)

Congratulating officials
Even as a neutral observer, as Koscielny received an unjustified red card I couldn’t help but wonder whether the ref and the linesman knew that the rules regarding last man fouls had changed prior to Euro 2016.

I was aware that the rules had been relaxed so that the defending team did not concede a penalty and incur a red card for a challenge by the last man. Nobody at all seemed to be talking about why the referee changed his mind from a yellow to a red with help from the fourth official.

Then I went and actually read the rules. The only time a yellow should be produced is in the event of an “accidental” foul – i.e. a genuine attempt to play the ball. Only a desperate last ditch tackle with intent to play the ball really falls into this category; anything else is still a red. Since Koscielny knew exactly what he was doing when barging the striker off the ball there is no way that his challenge could be construed as anything less than deliberate, hence a deserved red and abject Arsenal humiliation.

The most astounding thing about this incident is that it is surely the first time in history that a fourth official has actually made himself useful.
Jamie Bedwell, Cheltenhamshire

FAO: Stewie Griffin
I’ve never been an AKB or a Wenger-outer. Like most Arsenal fans I know, I’ve balanced my opinions with a longer term view, gratitude for what came before, and a belief in the possibility that not one side of the rabid pendulum of football support HAD to be right. Since about 2011 there have been arguments for Wenger leaving and arguments against. Right now, clearly the arguments are overwhelmingly in favour of his departure.

But Stewie, just because many people now align with your view doesn’t mean you were right all along. The facts have changed, and most reasonable football fans can change their views in light of facts.

Not you of course. You are the worst of football fandom, the myopic element who see only what they want to see, belittle those who disagree with you and loudly proclaim that you had called it all along. In other words, a complete tosser. If Wenger goes, it should be with a recognition that he is our greatest ever manager (3 titles between 1956 and 1992, 3 more between 1998 and 2004.) Instead I’m sure I will have to read a mail the next day about how the board have finally listened to you. You represent the opposite of what supporting Arsenal means to me and I am genuinely ashamed to support the same club as you.

You also can’t use “hubris” in a sentence correctly.
Joe Rice (pass the hubris)

Vamos, Ramos
Lost in the crazy early morning mailbox was the other game last night, where Real Madrid came back from a goal down at half time – at which point another Napoli goal would send them through – to win 3-1 on the night and 6-2 on aggregate.

At half-time the game was charged and it didn’t feel unlikely that Napoli might do it. Then, within 10 minutes, the stadium was deflated and the tie over. And it was Sergio Ramos what done it.

I’ve always had a low-level crush on Ramos, the handsome shithouse, sometime marauding full-back, latterly CB rock and club captain. However, it was only last night that got me thinking how exceptional he is, particularly in big moments.

A cursory webernet googly tells me that his club career reads 556 games and 70 goals and his international career 140 caps and 10 goals. Two things stand out: 1) for a defender that’s a fantastic scoring ratio, and 2) that’s an insane number of caps for an outfielder who is still just 30 years old. But back to the big moments thing, and when he’s scored some of those goals…

Last night he scored 2 to kill the tie – in a fairly hostile stadium, in a knockout CL tie. Turns out his last 7 CL goals are in knockout ties. 2 of those you might remember came in CL finals. 2 more in the 4-0 victory over Bayern. 1 of the finals goals was in injury time, where they went on to win in extra time. The other was in the final that went to a penalty shootout… where he scored the 4th penalty.

Away from the CL and the trend continues. Just this season in La Liga he’s scored the last minute goal to earn a point in the Clasico, and he scored the last minute winner in the 3-2 against Deportivo. He’s also scored in the semi and final of the Club World Cup (yeah, alright) and again in the Super Cup to take the game to extra time against Sevilla. Which Madrid won, obvz.

He has 3 La Ligas, 2 Copa Del Reys, 2 League Cups, 2 Champions Leagues, 2 Supercups, 2 Club World Cups, 2 European Championships, and a little World Cup too. And he’s 30. Are central defenders not meant to reach their peak in their early 30s?

Is he the outstanding defender of the century? And where does he rank all time? Regardless, he’s a damn excellent footballer.

And he’s real handsome.
Doug, Glasgow

Minutes later
…lovely to see that your early winner is Sergio Ramos and that the mail I just sent you about Sergio Ramos that says lots of the same things is immediately useless.
Doug, Glasgow

Quickfire hat-trick
…great article though Sarah. I agree completely.
Doug, Glasgow

 

And the award for ‘worst decision by a new owner’ goes to…
After the Chelsea game on Monday, I heard a few pundits starting to talk end of season awards. Whilst a few will be up in the air, I’d like to offer a fairly nailed on certainty for ‘worst decision by a new owner ‘-  The sacking of Gary Rowett to bring in Gianfranco Zola.

At Birmingham, we’re a club used to comedy ownership capers- our pervious de facto ‘owner’  (although not technically due to the structure) was after all in jail for the majority of his tenure. But out of that total paralysis at the top came strength and stability below in the shape of GR working miracles with virtually nothing to spend on fees our wages.  Sadly for our new owners, that was not enough- blinded by the ‘what could be’ they made the call to make a change, before GR had a chance to finally properly to strengthen the squad and, for what we believe (as we’ve still yet to hear anything from China), the view was Zola would bring in a change of football philosophy.

In some ways they were right. We’ve gone from play off contenders to being in absolute free fall.  We at least thought we were safe with the points accrued under GR, but such is the run we’re on, I don’t think we can say that now.

Perhaps the saddest thing is the inevitability of it all. I’m not saying GR was universally seen as the man to lead us back to better days, but you’d have been hard pushed to have found anyone who thought Zola was the answer. The common thought was ‘bloody nice man, pretty poor manager’ and so it’s proved. We’re actually regressing, last night against a Wigan team in the bottom 3 was utter dross, about as far from ‘better football’ as you could imagine. It says everything when we were actually cautious optimistic for the game after the performance at the weekend- a game we lost 1-3.

So, in the Maelstrom that is Arsenal after last night and a problem that’s borne out of being hamstrung by the ultimate in long term-ism, I give you the direct opposite- A complete and utter short term disaster, fuelled by ignoring reality and shooting for unrealistic stars.

Quite what we do from here is anyone’s guess. Zola may well leave, but the best manager in terms of fit for a big-ish championship club looking to stabilise and improve is, sadly, the one we sacked

KRO.
Andy, London. 

Sky, BT, streaming and Lithuanian football
I wasn’t going to write in with this after the Arsenal match last night as I thought that the morning mailbox would be filled to capacity with Arsenal fans crying into their corn flakes, however I’ve just seen that you’ve published an unusually early mailbox meaning there’s still hope for this mail in the afternoon yet, hope it isn’t too niche…

I read with interest the various mails regarding TV subscriptions and streaming and thought I would chip in. For the record, I’m a streamer and wouldn’t dream of paying £50+ for a subscription to watch football on TV. I have a season ticket on the Turf [Moor] to satiate my footballing needs and if the streaming ever stopped I don’t think I would particularly miss 90% of the action.

However, there is an alternative for anyone who doesn’t want to pay for an extortionate Sky/BT package but also has ethical issues with streaming (and also wants to add a bit of variety to their footballing intake)…

This season (which started last weekend and runs through to November, I think), every game from the Lithuanian A Lyga is being broadcast live via the league’s official YouTube channel (FutboloTV) for free! So you can watch as much football as you like via the internet without the latent feeling of guilt which may accompany streaming or the damage to your wallet that comes with paying for Sky! (I believe it was about €20 last season, that obviously didn’t sell very well…)

I have more reason than most to take an interest as I have a Lithuanian fiancé and so usually we end up in Lithuania at least twice a year. Naturally this obliges me to check out the local footballing scene and I’ve been to a couple of matches in the last year or so (£2.50 a ticket!), the best one being one of last season’s four (I think) Kaunas derbies between Žalgiris Kaunas and Stumbras Kaunas which finished 2-1 to the visitors, with Žalgiris having a penalty saved in the last minute with the score at 1-1 and Stumbras going straight up the other end and stealing the win.

The crowd was only a few hundred and the quality was League 2 standard, if that (although I think these are two of the poorer teams in the league, certainly the perennial winners Žalgiris Vilnius and maybe one or two others play in Europe every year and are much closer to Championship standard, although I haven’t watched enough to make a definitive judgement). They also play mostly on 3G pitches and during the colder months sometimes play indoors too, which is a strange to watch. The commentary is in Lithuanian and the production values are a far cry from the slick presentation of Sky but I get a strange sense of fulfilment from watching, it seems much more earnest and honest when compared to the overblown nature of top level football and sometimes it’s just nice to watch 22 guys battle it out just for the sake of playing football, whatever the quality.

The league format is very similar to the Scottish league (I actually don’t know if this is still the case in Scotland) where there are eight teams at the beginning and at the halfway point the league splits into two mini-leagues of four teams which then play to decide the champions/relegated teams.

There is almost no coverage or media of the league in English, but using my pigeon Lithuanian and following a couple of local journalists on Twitter who sometimes tweet in English I’ve gathered that a number of teams have been wound up in the last few years, either for match fixing or bankruptcy, and indeed a week before the start of this season the newly promoted team FK Šilas was relegated (or possibly even dissolved, I’m not sure) because of some strange betting activity involving some of their players and a pre-season friendly in Latvia, meaning a reprieve for last season’s relegated team Žalgiris Kaunas. Despite this, I think the feeling is that the Lithuanian FA are pulling the league in the right direction (happy to be corrected on any of this if anyone is in the know!).

TL;DR: Lithuanian league football is free to stream on YouTube and if you don’t want to pay Sky or stream illegally (or even go to a local non-league game) then you should give it a go! If nothing else I hope you learned something about a League which understandably isn’t on 99.9% of people’s radars. Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb7AMCQ5IUevpmvULECHfJg
Ashley (I have not been paid for this, I promise!)(Damn you, Llorente), Burnley