Mails: On idiotic Herrera, average Pogba, pathetic Jose

Mails: On idiotic Herrera, average Pogba, pathetic Jose

If you have anything to say on any subject, mail us at theeditor@football365.com

Jose’s gameplan backfired
Just to be clear here, if you didn’t watch the Chelsea v Manchester United game, don’t try to comment on Herrera’s ejection. If you watched a highlight, you’ll be “oh no, that wasn’t a yellow”.

it was obvious from the outset the intent was to target Hazard, he was fouled so many times that referee Oliver called over team captain Smalling and made it plain – next foul on Hazard – yellow card. So then Herrera, on a yellow, within 30 seconds? Off for being more stupid than cynical. Get a brain.

Manchester United opened with a high press, they were playing well, but the Hack-A-Haz tactic really worked against them. Suddenly they’re down to ten, now they’ve got a back seven, hoping to sneak a counter or take it to penalties, and then the one player who no-one expected to break through that wall of players sees De Gea moving over expecting him to pass, and boom! Game. Wonderful.

You know why Jose was smiling when Herrera was sent off? Wryly appreciating that his plan wasn’t going to work. Smalling needs to work on his man-management skills too. Handling the referee? He was lucky not to get his marching orders also. Communicating Oliver’s instructions to the team? Nope. Didn’t care. Way to represent the “Respect” armband he’s wearing.
Steve (You might as well lose the “Respect” armband, it means nothing) Los Angeles

…I usually wait for the editorial piece to see what the fine brains behind this site thought of the game. As always, 16 conclusions did not disappoint.

It’s weird that that Fellaini substitution was brought up. The minute Herrera was sent off, I texted a friend of mine to accuse Mourinho of devising a game plan where pressure coupled with persisting fouling would be adopted from minute one. And should there be a red card – a ready made excuse would already been handed to him. Sure enough, the circumstances around the dismissal gave enough for Mourinho’s press conference look of “brave man who has been wronged”. I, in turn, was accused of perceiving life with a negative outlook and cooking up conspiracy theories.

​I somehow still believe Mourinho came in with nothing but a plan to match the Chelsea attack by playing six at the back, fouling Hazard at every opportunity and hoping for a quick break using Young, Mkhi and Rashford. And he had nothing to lose – with the Rostov match around the corner, everyone knows that’s top priority. A narrow loss to Chelsea in the quarters with City, Spurs and Arsenal still left in the Cup would be comforted by a possible EL trophy.

Perhaps the last three years have robbed me of my god-given right of demanding that United win every trophy in sight. I didn’t have any expectations from this match except perhaps a more solid performance than last October (which I think we saw). It is a damning indictment that Jose has spent so much of money on a squad that still has to go out and defend for their lives against the top team in the country. It says a lot more about his perceived lack of tactical nous – the era of park the bus and win on penalties is passe now.

You can see the siege mentality that Jose is trying to build in this team. I still think that they need a leader on the pitch, willing to mirror that mentality – every Jose team has always had a leader. Terry, Zanetti, Ramos etc – they’ve all personified that mentality and United sorely lack that.
Budhaditya

On the reaction to the red card
I’m sure you’ll get plenty of mail about the match itself and red card but I wanted to highlight the reaction to the red card.

First of all, the on pitch reaction. Well I guess that puts to bed any lingering thought about the ‘Respect Campaign’ – it lasted about three weeks approximately five years ago.

I don’t know what it is about Jose’s teams, whether it’s actually a direct instruction from him or what but it was a hallmark of his Chelsea teams to see JT et al surrounding and haranguing the ref, and it was the same last night. I know it’s been suggested before but I think football needs to take a leaf from rugby’s book – if anyone other than the captain speaks to the ref, he goes into the book. This video of Nigel Owens is basically a picture of what needs to happen in football, it’s like watching a teacher admonishing two naughty school boys;

Secondly, and this is the worst part for me, is the attitude of pundits and fans that ‘red card ruined the game’, with the implication being that given that it was big game, an FA Cup quarter final between Man Utd and Chelsea, Michael Oliver shouldn’t have issued a red. No sod that, Herrera ruined the game by committing a stupid foul after being booked, on the same player that Utd had been fouling all game AND committing the foul not one minute after he has watched his captain get a warning about repeated fouling, and getting himself sent off.

I understand the frustration people have that a blue ribbon match was ‘ruined’ very early on but the fault does not lie with the referee on this occasion. I think pundits and commentators need to move away from this idea that “the red card ruined the game” and allocate the blame where it belongs “Player X ruined the game by getting sent off”, because the reality is, whether consciously or not it puts the blame squarely on the referee and in most cases (and certainly this one) this is not the case.
Ben, Oz (I knew Herrera was a c*nt, I didn’t realise he was an idiot)

Some United conclusions
1. First off, I didn’t hold much hope of getting past Chelsea, even before the news that we were down to one available striker. We have been in poor form of late, and our only real goalscorer was banned, so it was always going to be a tough ask, but it’s slightly harder to take after that match. I’m not going to claim we deserved to win or anything, but it was a spirited performance from a team that just did not quit and we weren’t embarrassed or anything. We were just missing some cutting edge going forward and we might have stood a slim chance if we’d kept 11 men on the pitch.

2. Speaking of which, Herrera was truly idiotic tonight. While I think the second yellow was a little harsh, he – like Surman – is very stupid for committing a second yellow card offence right under the referee’s nose. He cost us that game tonight, no one else.

3. Though Mourinho didn’t help the cause with his first substitution. Bringing off Mkhitaryan was entirely the wrong call; it completed isolated Rashford from that point on, and doomed us to 60-odd minutes of defence vs attack. He would have been far better taking off either Young or Darmian.

4. Or, better yet, Pogba. I know it’s still early days in his United career but we seriously are going to need to see some average performances at some point soon. For that is where the bar is now: average would be an improvement. Week after week we are seeing really poor, subdued performances where he constantly wastes possession and makes bad choices. There are the occasional moments of quality, but they are the exception rather than the rule. He still has plenty of time to turn it round, but he simply has to either improve or be removed from the starting lineup.

5. Chelsea were described as “just too good” at the final whistle in commentary and, while I agree with that in general this season, they weren’t tonight. They had a good hour to put that tie to bed and could not do it. There are some exceptions but they were pretty ordinary tonight against a very limited United side.

6. Kante is the obvious exception, and deserved the MotM award. I am always impressed by Willian too, and would love to see him in a United shirt (not that I think we will). Hazard had bright moments but failed to really do anything that really affected the game.

7. But Rojo had Diego Costa in his pocket all night. If he could play like that every game then he would be a shoo-in for the next few years. It’s just a shame he has the tendency to lose his head every few games.

8. Diego Costa, by the way, could have more than justifiably been sent off himself. His deliberate elbow into De Gea’s midriff in the first half and the petulant foul on Jones in the second should have both been yellows. Not that it would have made any difference to the result, but the consistency from the officials was missing there.

9. The one other major irritation (as well as Herrera getting sent off) was the lack of effort from Jose to change it. He waited far too long to make any subs, and I don’t understand why he did so. Surely Mata could have had an influence on that game?

10. I’m not too disappointed with tonight because I’d resigned myself to defeat long before the game kicked off, and I don’t think we had what it takes to win the whole thing even if we had stumbled past Chelsea (no way we would have beaten any of the other three semi-finalists).

We are clearly a long, long way off being the finished article, and there are several big problems that must be solved – and quickly. We should be able to get past Rostov, if we combine the application and energy from tonight with some attacking verve and some clinical finishing. But I’d like to see us go all out for the Europa League now; the two-legged format lends itself better to our stuttering form, and I don’t believe we have the ability to put a consistent league run together, so foresee us missing out on the top four.
Ted, Manchester

…Since writing my conclusions, I have seen the footage of Rojo stamping on Hazard (I missed it last night somehow). I hereby revoke my praise of him and hope he also gets stuck with the same 5-match ban as Mings.
Ted, Manchester

Not a lot of fun there, Jose…
Well that was a fairly unpleasant evening from a United point of view. Whilst I don’t think the foul deserved a yellow in isolation it was a real shoot yourself in the foot moment and given the referee’s chat about 30 seconds before we really can’t complain.

What we can complain about though is Mourinho’s reaction and decision to bring Fellaini on for Mkhitaryan. That’s when the game was over for me and I knew we were not going to get anything out of it.

A 1-0 defeat is the same as a 3-0 defeat in a cup game so why take off your most likely chance of a goal? I know Rashford nearly pulled it off but it really was a tall order asking him to score in the circumstance of basically him v three defenders and a goalkeeper. And he really should have scored having done the hard work, one on one with the keeper and it should of been the equaliser. Mourinho has history of defending when down to 10 men and then catching the dominant team out with a clinical finish however we were just not able to apply any quality to the meagre possession we had apart from that Rashford chance.

Obviously the circumstances were vastly different but it did remind me of the Bournemouth game and our complete lack of quality, composure and decision making which is quite a worry. Only Mata showed any composure against Bournemouth and that is not good enough from this group of players. Last night was a tall order even before losing our strikers and then a red card but let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture as much as Mourinho would love us to.

NG Kante was a pleasure to watch last night whilst Costa was right at the other end of the spectrum.
Plato, MUFC (Resting between games is overrated)

…That was painful to watch. The 1-0 scoreline kept the glimmer of hope alive that United might sneak a goal and take the game to extra time (and Rashford probably should’ve scored) but it was not to be.

We were never going to win that game without Herrera, and the red card makes it difficult to draw too many conclusions from the game. I felt both of his cards were soft, but the systematic fouling of Hazard does make it understandable why Oliver sent him off (although that was barely a foul). Herrera was unfortunately punished for a system designed to stop Hazard.

The game wasn’t all negative, and Valencia’s performance was a shining light on a disappointing night. The passion and drive he showed needs to be emulated by the rest of this United team in times of despair. I don’t know what Mourinho did, but Valencia has gone from make-shift right back to a contender for United’s player of the season and it’s lovely to see.

Rojo is another player who seems to have turned things around and I think he put in another solid performance which should cement his place as a CB and not a LB struggling to stay on his feet.

As for De Gea, he remains a magician.

The most concerning aspect of this game was the performance of Pogba. I can’t remember when last he had a good game. It’s not even that he’s failing to meet the overwhelming expectations, he’s just not been very good lately. It’s gotten to the point where I was hoping Fellaini would see more of the ball than Pogba last night. He is clearly void of confidence and he needs to be rested/benched. Pogba is a magnificent player, I know it, you know it and Mourinho knows it – and it’s up to him to get the best out of him. It’s not a crisis for a 23 year old player to hit a bad run of form – but playing him 90 minutes in every single game is going to be more detrimental than beneficial to him right now.

One last point – I would baptise my first-born child in the Church of Kante if such a church existed. It is almost impossible to not enjoy how magnificent he is.

Hopefully United bounce back on Thursday and put all their focus on winning the Europa League. This could still be a great season.
Gaaavie, Cape Town

That was anti-football
There are few better things in life than seeing a Jose Mourinho team lose. He sets his teams up to deliberately break up play and foul the opposition team constantly. Jose Mourinho is anti-football, and I love watching him lose. Seeing Herrera’s shithousery rightly punished was just the icing.
Paul M (That solves the Kante/Herrera debate, as if there were any doubts) LFC

Actually, that was okay…
Just wanted to say…

I was quite proud of the way Man Utd played last night. Lots to improve obviously, and I think Pogba could do with a rest and a little less pressure on him as his composure in front of goal has gone. And perhaps some of his fire, and hopefully a few days off will give him a chance to relax a bit.

Before Herrera went off the team was playing well, and it was only a matter of time before Herrera got his comeuppance for being pushing his snideness too far. He got booked early on and then got away with blatantly standing still and causing Hazard to run into him. The actual tackle he got sent off for was neither a foul and a dive by Hazard, and was only 30 seconds after Oliver had given that warning. It seemed ridiculous, but if Herrera hadn’t already spent much of the game pushing the boundaries it wouldn’t have mattered. Hopefully he reigns it in a bit and just concentrates on the football instead of trying to wind up his appointments.

And beyond that, I was glad to see that the team didn’t collapse and held it together despite how well Chelsea played. Conte is a brilliant manager, and I’m impressed with him and he’s somehow managed to make Chelsea more likeable. I’m looking forward to how we get on for the rest of the season now.
CJ (More of Rashford up front please!)

Michael Oliver: Celebrity ref
Mike Dean is the butt of the joke when it comes to celebrity refs but that is mostly based on this extravagant, near ethereal movements. However it is another Mike, namely Michael Oliver, that is becoming the real star of the celebrity refs show.

How the hell did he manage to send off Ander Herrera for that last night? For once the whole country was able to watch an exciting match between two of the best sides in England on terrestrial TV and it was actually living up the Monday night hype for once. Then bang, without any talking to or final warning Michael Oliver sends off Ander Herrera. There is no football match in the world where the actions of Herrera warranted a red card but there it was yet again this season as a referee stepped up to ruin another football match. The standard of course elite refereeing is in serious decline, a weekend does not seem to go past where games are not being ruined.

So could I please humble request that Michael Oliver gets his rightful place in the Big Weekend article? He has displayed all of the attributes in recent seasons to show he is heading right the top of the celebrity ref pyramid.
Parmjeet, Gravesend

The Chelsea corner
– How would Mourinho react managing another club in England towards Chelsea? Deep down, knowing the individual that he is – which is he lives and does everything only for himself (I say this with no judgement), I felt it was a matter of time before he took digs at Chelsea.

– And I was of the opinion that he expected to do it from a position of a title challenge while he watched his former club scrapping for fourth place given last season (As he clearly mentioned once whether it was him who took an average group to champions). How much narratives change?

– Therefore, my story on Jose vs Conte begins from the fact that (a) Conte warmed up to Chelsea fans, media, rivals and earned the respect so fast while (b) Jose was still trying all the trades in his playbook to convince United fans that Old Trafford is his new spiritual home (comments of the world’s best fans, amazed by fans etc etc.)

– That brings me up to last night’s game, that game was all about both showing the other “I’m in for the battle, lets see who can punch the other out”.

– Jose’s tactics showed what he knows about Chelsea. That Chelsea are not a defensive side by any measure (Despite his attempts to belittle Conte). One of Chelsea’s greatest strengths is the short build-up play with possession leading to wide over-loads. His tactics was spot on to strangle the short over loads, like he did at Anfield in the initial minutes.

– The plan was simple: shackle chelsea, foul them here and there, be rough, mentally question them, and mistakes will be on their way in moments. A classic Jose play book tactic to play an away big team. Only that he wasn’t playing Arsene Wenger’s Arsenal. This is Chelsea. The place Jose forged a bond with fans in England (a part of him is with us and a part of us is with him despite whatever he may say). A part of him lives in our club’s ethos. We wont get rolled over. And we showed that.

– If the game had been 11 v 11, I felt it was a question of time before one team wears down. United of course can’t do what they did for 90 minutes, and Conte’s team is always physically strong in the second half. It was a question of keeping it 0-0 for 60 minutes, and I was confident we’d break through (we had a plan B with Fabregas in a 3-5-2).

– Only that Herrera (who btw, is no way near Kante, the grace and technique with which Kante goes about his business is incomparable) had an absolute brain fart and chose to ignore Michael Oliver’s warning on fouling Hazard.

– I thought United came to injure Chelsea players in a bid to slow our title charge. It was thuggery at its potential best. I was annoyed that Oliver was not showing cards for ridiculous tackles in the opening minutes, but he didn’t stay quiet. In my opinion, Hazard knew what he was doing but that’s besides the point. Herrera deserved the red however you choose to see it.

– And that is the problem with a destructive notion of football (no Jose, sorry you are and will never be a purist). It relies on players enacting a plan 100% and a 1% drop in performance or change in plan results in trouble. It was a question of if and how we’d beat them than whether.

– Jose was right in another way. We are defensive. Else we could’ve scored a lot more last night given our possession and chances created.

– A note on the two goalies, the best two in England and in the top 3 in the world. Both showed why they’re world class while I hope Pep watched with a lot of envy given the disasters that are Bravo and the other chap whose name I cant even spell right.

– Also, another point on CFC fans. Normally there are two good things about Chelsea amidst many other chaotic stuff. One, a sacked manager goes with an enhanced reputation with the exception being Jose II and two, regardless we always welcome our former sons with praise and regard (just ask Ranieri). All of it went to bust the moment Jose began his tirade on Conte and Chelsea in recent weeks (I can understand his desperate attempt to coax United fans to think they’re the world’s best as hilarious as his attempts may be). Remember, Chelsea fans have warmed up to Conte faster than Jose expected, Chelsea unexpectedly are rolling with the title and the pundits/media love Conte. Therefore, Conte is naturally the enemy Jose has marked to weave his narratives (that is how he works, he is a man who needs an adversary to find his identity). So any tirade against Conte will not go well with the fans. Even if it is Jose Mourinho. Having said that, it was only a small classless section who abused him. I am against abuse to any individual and watching football and Chelsea long back from Jose era I also, I can never abuse/hate him (only be indifferent). So Jose, if you’re reading this, please ignore those idiots who abused you and remember that a large section of us still have small love somewhere inside. We just don’t like it when you pick a fight with our son – Don Conte. For us the preference is Conte now.
Aravind, Chelsea fan

…- Great match. You could really feel the tension in the stadium and you could see that each team really wanted it. I honestly couldn’t take my eyes off each pass. Just fantastic. That being said…

– Herrera is a d*ck, through and through. He fully deserved his first yellow, he saw Hazard coming and actively chose not to move out of the way and in fact braced his shoulder for Hazard to run into it. And whether he knew Oliver’s persistent fouling stipulation on Hazard post the Phil Jones foul he was still cynically trying to cut off play by Hazard, and it was a poor foul which bought him the red. So there can’t be too many complaints by the terrible tackler. As Kante shows, you don’t have to be huge to be effective in a defensive position, you just have to not suck at tackling. The kid needs work.

– Mourinho’s tactics were obvious, cynical and pathetic. I was never happy that such a person was at the helm of Chelsea to begin with. He is clearly a manchild. Won’t shake hands. Plays mind games in the lead up to the match. Calls Chelsea defensive when he’s known for being the king of successful, defensive strategies. Well, he and Pulis. Nevertheless, sad.

– I would LOVE to have Valencia at Chelsea, especially given our new 3-4-3 set-up. His tackling needs some work, nobody likes a two-footed lunge, but dude has energy and enthusiasm that would make any manager or teammate happy. I am continually impressed by him.

– Speaking of who impresses me, I think David Luiz might be due a captain’s armband sometime soon. If you really watch him on that field he’s directing traffic like no one else. He organizes and motivates like no one save Conte himself. If a captain is more than just ceremonial and is actually someone the team looks to on the pitch during the match for leadership, I don’t think it ought to be Gary Cahill (or Chris Smalling for that matter). Luiz exudes leadership qualities. He has clearly matured in his time away from Chelsea, as a man, and as most people have noticed, as a player.

– How anonymous was Pogba? (AGAIN?!)

– I was sad to see Mkhitaryan’s reaction to being substituted. He had to know it was strategic but it’s still gotta hurt that early on, especially after the fraught early part of his relationship with Mourinho. I wonder how personal that sub felt to him.

– I have to say I think the fact that Kante never scores is the reason he did tonight. He got the ball with tons of space around him and with De Gea literally jumping, presumably expecting him to pass to someone else, but instead he wrapped his foot around it just perfectly and found the corner. It was a good shot no doubt, but it came as a surprise as much as anything.
Guy Adam, CFC, Kansas City

Praising Kante and more…
So can we finally put this nonsense to bed that any one of Herrera, Henderson, etc. is better than Kante.

There is quite simply no one better in world football than that man in his position.

He does the destroyer role, yet rarely gives away fouls and also starts off attacks and rarely gives away the ball.
He would walk into any team and make them better, even Real, Barca or Bayern.

I love Fernandinho for us, but I would swap him for Kante in a heartbeat.

He is never going to win Player of the Year or a Balon D’Or, as he isn’t Messi or Ronaldo or scores 999 goals a season. So I guess its up to actual football fans to give this guy the respect he deserves. Also he seems a very chilled, humble guy which always appeals.

Last night’s game was interesting, Herrera was an idiot making that challenge, but fair play to United they hung on and didn’t get battered.

The referee however was not so good. After the Herrera red card, he then seemed to stop booking players on both sides.

There were some certain bookings for sure. I don’t like to be too hard on refs as it is a such a hard job with how fast the game is now.

Also the general douche-bagginess of most players doesn’t help, but it really is time to get a video ref involved.
Be it via managers having a set number of challenges, or a booth review system like NFL.

Something has to be done, we are talking about the biggest, bestest, richest sport on the planet.

The right decision has to be reached as often as is possible. You know for integrity and fairness and all that stuff.

Last point, Dan Walker was a little snake last night. Starts off by trying to get Mourinho to slag off the ref, which after initial reluctance Jose started to do.

Then he goes to Conte, claiming Jose is talking about the red card. So Conte gives a generic answer as he doesn’t want to play Mr Walker’s game.

What is it with these tele goons that they want to get people into trouble all the time.

We all here for the football, not the bullsh*t tittle tattle at the end of a match.
DANNY B – MCR –MCFC (Wembleh, Wembleh!!)

This was coming
Just like my prediction on faltering Liverpool came to pass back in January, now my observation that Man Utd have benefited mostly from a friendly fixture list has come to pass. They go away to a top six club and they got beat, and beaten quite comfortably regardless of the scoreline. There’s nothing that special about them.

Just call me Rosstradamus.
Ross THFC