Mails: English clubs need more nous/sh*thousery

Mails: English clubs need more nous/sh*thousery

Now we’re ready for Europa League mails. Send them to theeditor@football365.com

Yes but wasn’t that fun?
Interesting reading in the previous mailbox regarding PSG’s poor performance at the Nou Camp.

I agree that PSG were not at their best, but as in any great comeback, the losing team never is. Yes, their finishing and defending was poor. The referee did not have a game to remember. But that should not detract from those once in a decade games.

Neymar was spectacular. He is truly becoming a big game player. In Instanbul, if AC Milan had been at their best, then Liverpool would not have scored three goals to win the Champions League.

As in any comeback, it requires one team to have a poor performance. Barcelona are better than PSG, that is not in doubt. They are not five goals better, but on the night they had the belief to keep going.

PSG may have been poor, the ref might have been crap, but let’s all enjoy one of the greatest football matches we have all seen n a while.
Liam (Fulham fan), trying to keep up with football 13 hours ahead in New Zealand

English teams need some of that Barca nous
It’s become clear from the reaction to the Barcelona comeback that England are simply never going to win anything. We believe we play on some moral high ground, that somehow the forms of cheating we participate in are honourable, as opposed to the “scumbag” tactics employed by the “foreigners”. It’s pathetic. Their will to win is a staggering amount larger than ours.

Suarez dived for the fifth goal. Does he care? Do Barcelona? They’ve won the tie. Winners push the limits of the rules of the game, and attempt to get away with what they can to do it. They know the risk – if they get caught, they get booked. Do I think it’s good for football that cheating is an effective tactic? No. Do I wish England did it more? If it meant we started to win things, I absolutely do. Without much in-depth insight, it does seem like Europeans just don’t understand why we fuss over these things. Barca just completed the most improbable comeback in recent Champions League history. They did it using every means they could. If English teams had half the nous of Barcelona, Bayern and Real Madrid, then perhaps we’d have had more recent success in it.

These top European teams are not just getting to the latter stages of the Champions League every year on talent alone – the mentality that they possess puts them above the rest. They have supreme confidence in their own ability, and above all else a will-to-win that I don’t think we can even fathom in this country. Our outrage isn’t going to change football, no matter how loudly we complain, or how disgusted we might become.

Finally, I’m really not sure how anyone can doubt the first penalty. Meunier slips. In that instance, he has a choice – let Neymar go, and risk a goal from open play, or throw himself in front of Neymar’s feet, bring him down, and see if Barca can convert the penalty. He knew what he was doing, and arguably just made a really poor decision.
Martin, Brighton

Suarez is a rare talent
People in the mailbox getting angry about diving Barcalona side I think need a different perspective. Suarez skill at diving is world class. It’s not a good skill or one I admire but it’s a skill nonetheless, like being good at selling people PPI was in the 90’s. From teams I supported, EMO and Pires both had it as well. They went down and it’s only on the third replay that as an Arsenal or England fan (as I am) that you were suddenly a bit quieter thinking ‘wow, we got away with one there’. Owen vs Argentina is the best example of that. It’s so good that even now years later I’m convinced Poch took his legs on all but the one angle that shows it was just a spectacular dive.

For me (Clive), acting is about commitment and belief. A bad actor says the lines and you can’t quite put your finger on why it’s bad. A good actor says the same lines but in the moment doesn’t consider themselves an actor saying a line. They have no concept of what the audience thinks of them. They are the character at that point. Somehow that comes across.

In the same way, bad divers just fall over. Owen would be prepared to smash face first into the turf, arms and legs everywhere, to sell a dive, as that’s what would happen if you’d really been tripped. Bad divers act like they were fouled. Pires was the first I think to be great at flicking his feet into each other, twisting his body and adding a shout with the timing of an opponent’s moving leg, effectively fouling himself. Bad divers pretend to be hurt. Suarez goes full beans on the over the top, been shot in the face, touching his head looking for imaginary blood, face contorted in pain. I think he is ‘talented’ enough that he believes it himself, and that’s what sells it to the ref.

PFMs will often make a quip about a ‘foreign’ who dives looking for an Oscar, but when it’s done really well I don’t think that’s far wrong. Just try and admire the craft, and be thankful it’s not resulting in Mike Dean awarding a penalty against your team in a crucial game anymore. Not that I’m saying Deany would have any truck with overacting of course.
Paul (Yeah all Gooners know Pires dived to save the Invincibles season) AFC

UEFA’s darlings? Oh do shush…
I’m not sure if you picked those two contributors deliberately, but I could’ve put money on the anti-Suarez brigade being led by a doubled barrelled English sounding name and a man from Manchester. Quickly on the foul (for that is what it was) on Suarez for Neymar’s pen and the fifth goal, I’m sorry but exaggerated fall accepted, that was a clear penalty. The ball is dropping well within Suarez’s sphere to get something on the ball, and Marquinhos makes zero attempt to play the ball or get himself into position to legally challenge for the ball, doesn’t even look at it, and just throws an arm across Suarez’s chest. If that were a legal tactic, practised by both sides for 90 minutes, you wouldn’t have the sport of Association Football.

The first pen was a weird one, the PSG boy throws himself off balance to the ground desperately in the direction of the ball, but paying no attention to opponents in his vicinity – you could argue if you do that the conventional way (with your legs leading toward the ball) and you take the man not the ball, then it’s a clear foul. We can all argue as long as we like, but I reckon the only decision his official assessors might want to critique is that lunch from Mascherano on Di Maria – but as in so many similar incidents, hard to judge in the split second when the attacker does actually get the shot off.

But still these decisions did favour a foreign club that has had its fair share of success versus English clubs, so well you know, they’ve cheated haven’t they? The liberal sports media elite will tell us different, but we the silent majority know! F**kin’ Uruguayans comin’ ‘ere……

The main problem was that PSG utterly, shambolically bottled it. I mean, that was not classic, another level Barca tiki-taka that produced those goals. The fifth and sixth were down to panic and shutting off mentally – both were balls played into space – well be switched on and react and try to compete then! Even in the first half, before the second goal, and still in a hugely comfortable position, PSG players seemed imbued, thus distracted, by some sense of injustice. They were haranguing the ref (when you have a four-goal lead going into a game, it’s really a moot point if the other team is also doing it, you’ve no need to!) frequently, with supposed leadership figure Matuidi seeming particularly out of control. Oh, and almost forgot, Cavani missed chances as usual.

If last night occurred purely because Barca are UEFA’s darlings, how do you explain Atletico Madrid (who do not have a rep as anyone lofty’s darlings) seeing them off two times out of two in the last three seasons? Maybe it’s because they’re solid as f*ck, well trained and focused?

Cheers.
Bobby Bear

…So I checked the morning mail hoping to see people discuss the greatest comeback in history, and what do I see? People cooking and spicing the same old conspiracy theory: Barcelona are cheats.

I can’t begin to imagine how many times I’ve heard that. From the comeback against Chelsea, to the treble seasons, and then now. I even saw a post where someone wrote Barcelona and Bayern are Uefa darlings and they would do anything to make them go far in the competition. Really? Really?!

In life, even with the hard work, sometimes you need a little luck which was what Barcelona got yesterday. As for the conspiracy theory, if it were true, then I expect to see a Barcelona vs Bayern final every year.
Nelson (Umtiti fan) Lagos

…I’ve seen and heard a lot of criticism of Barcelona last night, about them being cheats, about them apparently being the recipients of some creative refereeing, and people reluctant to give credit where it’s due for what was the biggest comeback in Champions League history.

The mail in particular I’m responding to is Abner Barongo from this morning, with his definitive ‘three-pronged attack’ on why last night was nothing to write home about.

1) They were awarded two soft penalties – No, they weren’t. You could argue the second one was soft, perhaps, but I’ve seen them given in the Premier League. The first one, the guy stumbles over pretty much straight across Neymar’s path. It’s pretty irrelevant if it wasn’t deliberate, he stopped a goalscoring opportunity.

2) Koscielny gets done for a soft foul but Mascherano gets away with cluttering Di Maria – Come on mate, at least try to hide your Gooner goggles. Koscielny stepped across Lewandowski when he was clean away on goal. It was a blatant red. I don’t think there was anything whatsoever in the Di Maria/Mascherano clash. I can’t even remember it being a talking point? I know Barcelona have walloped you countless times and nicked players from you who were too good for you, but at least try to be objective.

3) PSG’s finishing was poor – Not Barca’s fault mate.

The referee was poor – You’ve already made a poor point about all his decisions. Point 1 and 3 were the same thing. As Alan Partridge would say, “it was a two pronged trident…a bi-dent”.

I’d like to go through all of Arsenal’s joke decisions this season, such as Koscielny dragging the ball into the net with his hands up at Burnley to steal the points, or Giroud going down like a tree being felled to win a last minute pen v Southampton, or the goal given against Spurs when you had three players offside but the ref didn’t stop play and Wimmer had to make a decision and headed into his own net. A soft red for Simon Francis at Bournemouth also allowed you to get back into the game and get a draw. Six points right there. But that isn’t my point. Every club at the top of the league gets decisions for and against them. Spurs beat Swansea 5-0 back in December, but during that game, we were adjudged to have received a soft pen from a Dele incident whilst the game was 0-0. Little was said about Neil Taylor kicking Walker in the head and not even being booked. That’s one for and against in the same game. C’est la vie!

Referees have difficult decisions to make. The dark arts in football are evolving quicker than the quality of officials across the board, not just in competitions where forriners compete. Our league is desperately short of decent officials. To sit there as an Arsenal fan and complain about poor decisions is delusional at best. Concentrate on things within Arsenal’s control, such as offering players contracts more than a year before expiry, buying midfielders that are able to run AND tackle, and try and get past the last 16. You haven’t even got as far as Spurs did seven years ago in seven attempts, most of which you have a bye in the groups through the previously awful seeding process.

By the way, how is that ‘unbeaten with Mustafi in the team’ stat doing?
Ross THFC

…A lot of concerns about there being a huge conspiracy in Uefa for Bayern and Barca to be the golden children. My two-penneth:

– ‘If only the Arsenal pen had been given, then the Bayern pen wouldn’t and it’s a different game.’ Correct – Bayern would have probably rose from their slumber a little earlier and it would have been 10-3 instead of 10-2. Simply put, Bayern have better players, with better tactics and were 5-1 up from the first leg – it’s unlikely any flow of the game would have changed the result.

– “Barca are cheating boohoo, he fell over, blah blah blah”. All well and good; however, from the 85th minute last night PSG touched the ball four times, three of which were from kick off. Barca managed to get six shots in and score three goals. Rather than complaining about the ineptitude of the referees, perhaps look at one of the top teams in Europe’s inability to hold on to the ball for more than 15 seconds when trying to close out a game they’re winning by two goals (on aggregate).

In short, it’s a funny old game but chances are both games were won because the losing team were grossly unprepared/sh*t the bed/were playing against better players. It’s far less likely that there is a huge conspiracy involving referees from countries outside of those supposedly being favoured by UEFA.

But then again, I’ve just had a look at the photos again and there’s no way the flag would blow like that if they were really on the Moon!
Alex, (good to see that neither of our two options for Euro 2024 are authoritarian states with human rights issues – we’ve had enough of them already with the World Cup eh?!), Ayr via London

Still think the referee helped…
The decisions last night in Barcelona’s ‘greatest comeback ever’ were nothing short of scandalous. For the first, Neymar runs into the box, sees a defender slip ahead of him and runs into the back of his head/shoulder and falls over. How on EARTH is that a penalty? Also, Suarez (previously booked for an outrageous dive) was barely touched and goes down holding his throat and gasping for air. The result? A penalty OF COURSE. Also, Neymar (also booked) was playing for the foul from which he scored the free kick (great hit to be fair), but I could see it coming a mile off and at the slightest hint of contact, he goes over. The officials couldn’t wait to give it either. Interestingly, I also believe Mascherano has now openly admitted to fouling Di Maria when through on goal. Had that been Messi, no doubt it would have been a penalty and red but it wasn’t. How come they didn’t see it when it went against Barca? They seemed to see EVERYTHING else in their favour. Who can argue with me on that?

I thought Arsenal were really unlucky with the officials too on Tuesday night. Lewandowski was offside when the ball was received and there didn’t appear to be too much contact from Koscielny. Had that been a Premier League game, Koscielny would have been fine and applauded for brilliant defending. Instead, he gets a yellow. No, sorry, red. Or was it yellow? No, it was red. Walcott should have clearly had a penalty right under the nose of the touchline official who seemingly saw it all when it come to Bayern’s penalty. How is this possible?

In this morning’s mailbox, there was a cry of foul towards big match decisions going in favour of the biggest clubs and, on this week’s evidence, it’s incredibly hard not to agree with that. Whether that is the weight of recriminations for the referee and company from bigger worldwide fanbases, scared of upsetting global superstars, on-pitch harrassment, incompetence or inconsistent application of the same rules in the game for both sides, well, you tell me. They have a very hard job, but it seems they can’t wait to give decisions – whether correct or not – to the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern whilst denying similar or identical instances to the likes of Napoli, PSG and Arsenal. As we have seen, such decisions at the highest level can have a profound impact upon the outcome of these matches and consequences beyond.

Third paragraph: ever since Chelsea won the thing in 2011/2012, the record of the Premier League teams in Europe has been woeful. In the subsequent five seasons – yes FIVE – Manchester United reached the quarter final once, and Manchester City and Chelsea reached the semi final once. Dear goodness that is AWFUL. I am a big proponent of the main reason for this being the awesome competition that is the Premier League. Gareth Bale said earlier this week that Real Madrid can take their foot off the gas in certain domestic matches. That’s certainly not the case in the Premier League and we don’t have a winter break. The conclusion is compelling: in order to be competitive in Europe, we need to introduce a winter break and probably scrap the League Cup. Our utterly dreadful collective showing in Europe over the past half-decade is there for all to see now. Five years is a long enough time to spot a worrying trend. City and Leicester might still prevail, but we’ll see. Actually, we won’t beyond this season as it’ll all be exclusively on BT in return for half your monthly wage (I refused to pay for subscriptions this year for the first time).
Will (didn’t take any post-match selfies), Cambridge

In defence of referees
First things first, what a bloody game that was last night. Right up there with the best games I’ve seen, I can only imagine what it was like to be there! The composure Neymar showed with the assist for the winner was something else. How many times have we seen players in that position in the last minute just firing it aimlessly into the box? Absolutely brilliant!

Now onto the main point I want to talk about, the complaints about referees over the last two nights which ironically has been a hot topic in the mailbox since last weeks article. As brad alluded to in the morning mailbox, and from what I’ve seen on social media, a lot of people have expressed disgust with the officiating over the two games on Tuesday and Wednesday. I disagree with this, as far as I can see there were two mistakes made in both games by referees and one being very questionable.

1. The second Barca penalty – A dive, no doubt about it. This in my eyes was the only major mistake made over the two games by a referee (granted it was a biggie but still).

2. The Alonso tackle on Walcott – This was probably a penalty but you can see why it wasn’t given (change in direction of the ball, crowded box). I’ts an error but I don’t think it would really have affected the outcome in the end. Sorry Arsenal fans.

In fact, for the first time ever we saw a fourth official actually helping a referee, not once but twice! And on both occasions they were right. For the Koscielny sending off he hasn’t attempted to play the ball with his feet, has barged across Lewandowski and stopped him from shooting. If he attempts to genuinely tackle with his feet and trips Lewandowski he probably gets yellow. The fourth official had the best view of this and intervened to make the right call. It’s one of the first times I’ve seen a referee change his mind on a decision with help from the ref behind the goal and if it leads to making more correct decisions I’m all for it!

In the Barca game a similar scenario, with Neymar being tripped by a falling Meunier. It was actually unbelievable to me that the ref didn’t make the call himself, looked a stonewall penalty to me. He’s taken Neymar out, albeit very unfortunately, in a very good position. Just because he didn’t mean to doesn’t make it less of a penalty. Again the fourth official had a word, and the ref took his advice on a decision he wasn’t sure of.

We’ve been crying out for this ever since those officials were put behind the goals, that they actually help a referee make a decision. We finally see it happen, and we are all crying foul saying it’s a disgrace. Surely this is only a good thing, two refs working together to make a decision. So in short, yes the refs got some things wrong, but they got a hell of a lot right too (remember Suarez got booked for diving too!. And besides without that wrong penalty call on Suarez we would have never got that magical ending last night now would we!
Steve (Ireland)

Some Champions League thoughts
First of all, Arsenal. That’s it really. Just Arsenal. Always Just Arsenal.

Second of all, and not entirely moving on from Arsenal just yet – Luis Enrique is not mentioned as a possible replacement for Wenger in many quarters. Is that not a massive oversight or am I missing something? For me, he is a cross between Guardiola and Simeone, a tactically astute football purist of the Barca tradition and a street fighter. He is also a serial winner. This is a guy that does triathlons as a pastime. For fun. Maybe its time someone took Aaron Ramsey and Theo Walcott running up a windy hill.

On the subject of Walcott, I obviously don’t know the guy but I can’t get away from the impression I get off him that he has read all the Harry Potter books. There is nothing wrong with this of course, I’m just saying he definitely has. Good goal, though.

Barcelona’s comeback was remarkable but Suarez’s dive did leave a poor taste. In now being part of one the iconic Champions League games, it is an incident that will be, in recalling the game, shown over and over. The problem with that is, it gets worse every time you see it. A preposterous a dive as it was desperate, it may not end up defining his career but it will definitely sit neatly beside his other ‘less savoury’ moments on the football pitch. Even more so perhaps as it will forever appear in a highlight reel that should only celebrate all that is great about the sport.
Kevin Walsh, Luimneach

Wonderful football…but I have missed it all
I’ve been reading the mailbox over the last two days, having woken up to the news that Barcelona delivered the most extraordinary comeback are cheating shithouses and Arsenal are basically in meltdown. It’s been an interesting round in the Champions League with some amazing football.. except I wouldn’t really know.

In January, I moved out of a shared house with two football-loving friends and moved in with my girlfriend and, except for the occasional MOTD, have seen almost zero football on TV. This actually has very little to do with her – she is delighted for me to distract myself while she studies in the evening (her final exams en route to being a specialist surgeon – good luck my love!), but when I left my housemates behind, I could no longer justify the £27 per month for BT Sport plus a minimum of £50 per month for Sky (sports plus a basic Sky package). Split between three people, it was expensive but acceptable, paid on my own, I just think “too expensive for what it is”. Factor in what you pay for a TV licence and other costs and you’re looking at well over £100 per month to be able to watch sports you want in HD.

This is such a shame – I love watching Chelsea play (ex season ticket holder), love tuning in to the Champions League games and seeing European teams and players I’m less familiar with and just in general love my football. The thing is, it’s not that I can’t afford the subscription – I could – I really just think it’s not worth paying £75 per month into what is essentially a TV cartel.

Instead, I listen to games when I can on the radio, listen to football podcasts when commuting (the football ramble, football weekly and the game primarily) and read your excellent site. It is safe to say I genuinely ‘consume’ more football related media than I actually now watch football. Realising that this transition has occurred has been both weirdly liberating and frustrating.

Liberating, as I no longer plan my week around what games I can see and have committed time to learning two new sports: badminton and rock climbing, both of which are far more accessible than football to play and even watch. Further, my evenings are free to do other things – I read A LOT more and am currently learning about Mongolian history as a random hobby. I also gamble on games less and probably have a lower blood pressure. In short, I basically “care less” about the game I ultimately love.

Therein lies the frustration – if I hadn’t have been priced out of the market, I’d still be an active football watcher (both going to games and watching them on TV), but ultimately I am at the point where I don’t get to do something I love because a big business has priced me out of it. I am sure there must be others similar to me, or even in a position where they just cannot afford to pay Sky and BT the requisite amounts.

I get it – I really do – people want to make money to make the game and it costs money to deliver the coverage, but surely there must be some sort of middle ground where everyone wins? At the moment it feels like an unsustainable business model is snowballing and the amount of money it costs to watch football on TV (and in the flesh) is rising to the point where it will alienate many, if not the majority of fans.

I’m not sure what the solution is, but I can’t help but feel happy/sad at my own libertarian/frustration at being priced out of watching the game I love. Perhaps the alternative media, like yourselves and independent podcasts can fill the gap to scratch my itch, but I’m not so sure.
Lee Madden

Mings should have got nine months
Now that we’ve all had a bit of a shout about how the referee cheated Neymar’s free kick into the PSG goal, and how he outlawed successful PSG passes, let’s talk about the other news from yesterday.

Tyrone Mings was given a 5 match ban for an offence where the standard ban was “clearly insufficient”. Bournemouth have responded by saying they are extremely disappointed by the FA’s decision. But why?

Personally I think Mings has gotten off very lightly. His actions were dangerous and malicious, a clear attempt to physically harm a defenceless opponent prone on the ground, with neither player having any influence on the game of play. There was serious danger to Ibrahimovic had he connected differently, and with the current focus on head injuries in sport being so close under the spotlight right now, Mings should be counting his blessings.

To put in comparison, Suarez got a six-match ban for biting an opponent (equally deplorable, far less dangerous), and any player who gets two red cards, for DOGO for example, will serve a total seeven-match ban, regardless of danger to an opponent.

Further, for Bournemouth to stand up for a player clearly intent on hurting a player non participating in play is as bad as Liverpool defending Suarez over the Evra incident.

Personally I would view this incident on a level with Cantona’s assault against the Palace fan, and would adjudged a 9 month/38 game ban fair, and would seriously stop players going out of their way to hurt others. It’s one thing to leave your foot in on a challenge you know you’ll win, but quite another to deliberately go about intentionally to cause harm.
KC (Could argue a further ban for Zlatan too, given the intentions)

Not all double digit scorelines are fun
As a fan of Feyenoord, one of the two most supported teams in the Netherlands and serial underachiever, shivers went down my spine when I read Steven Chicken’s piece on double-digit scorelines.

Thoughts went back to the worst day in Feyenoord’s history: October 24th, 2010.

At the time Feyenoord was all but bankrupt, after having gambled and failed to reach the Champions League with paying, among others, Giovanni van Bronckhorst and Roy Makaay lots of money the seasons before.

So with a team of talented but young players (such as Georginio Wijnaldum, Leroy Fer and Bruno Martins Indi) and mediocre Eredivisie players, a difficult season followed. Only confirmed by a historically bad start.

So we knew beforehand the PSV away game would probably end up in a loss. At half time, one man and 2-0 down, we could only hope the game wouldn’t end with a four or five goals loss.

Then, between the 46th and 62th minute, the drama unfolded, PSV scored five times, making it an unbelievable 7-0. In the half hour that followed the unthinkable happened: PSV scored three times more.

Jermaine Lens finalizing the humiliation in the 87th minute: 10 – 0.

A game that we will never be forgotten by Feyenoord fans. Now over six years later, we are on course to win the first Eredivisie title since 1999. If we succeed, thoughts undoubtedly will go back to this darkest day of the many dark days for Feyenoord fans.
Lodewijk Hekking, Haarlem, the Netherlands